62 replies to this topic

[dEd101]

WALL OF TEXT WARNING!

So I was really sad to see that ADH chose a vertical tuning system instead of a horizontal one in the Ascension patch.

I was looking in a few threads and saw some good ideas but nothing that didn't require a lot of work from the devs to implement.

Then I got an idea:
Use the existing system but tweak it to be more horizontal. Right now when you level as a pilot you get tuning points you can add to your mech. Each point currently gives you slightly more power over a level one pilot who has no points.

What I propose is to have all 30 tuning points available to all players regardless of level BUT they will be allocated to the mech in the following way:



OR even better:

zaepp, on October 30 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

ScreenShot00001_distribution.jpg

Which is full spec into the 3 primary systems at the start.

Now instead of adding more raw stats the tuning points you unlock will instead allow you to move more of these points around. Each tuning point basically = the ability to take one tuning point from one stat and put it in another (e.g. 1 point from heatsinks into armour).

Once a pilot hits level 30 the system would result in the exact same functionality we have now.

The result is that higher level players won't have more raw power(number of points) than lower levels players BUT they will be able to better allocate that power to fit what they want to do better.

Now obviously this is still a very rough idea. I already see a problem that once you get to around 20 tuning points in the new system the remaining 10 become pretty redundant.

The goal here was to use the existing system and make it less vertical and more horizontal in nature. Obviously being able to min/max more gives you the edge but at least this will bring a level 1 pilot closer to a level 30 pilot in raw stats than it currently is.

N.B: The Following is very crude and makes the assumption that all tuning options and points are equal:
Looking at raw numbers someone stated that mechs are designed on a point system where As has something like 120 points and Cs have 125 with Bs somewhere in the middle. If we take the A class 120 points and add 30 points(from leveling) to it we get 150 total points. 30/150=0.2. 0.2*100=20%. So assuming that all tuning points are equal a level 30 pilot is 20% more powerful than a level 1 pilot. My proposed system will even this out.

What do you guys think_

Edit:

dEd101, on October 29 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

With this system there is less of a reason to segregate players according to level and we can go back to mmr based ranking and balancing.

This will help players to find matches easier, in particular the level 30 players who aren't all that good (like me - I blame my ping - that's my story and I'm sticking to it)

tl;dr:
Using the existing system: instead of unlocking extra points the tuning points will instead allow you to move your stats around instead of the raw stat boost you get now. Everybody has 30points to start and as you level up you can move more of these points around instead of being stuck with the default. The idea is to even the playing field with regards to raw stats.

Edited by dEd101, November 01 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[Ehcin]

Been talking about exactly this to my friend, glad to see I didn't have to make a topic about it myself.

[DerMax]

Nice idea! Hope they implement it!

[nepacaka]

me like!


when I bought the vanguard after the patch, I had 30 points (i was max pilot lvl), and tuned as the you picture (the other slots were closed), mech was a very "strong" compared to the vanguard player with 0 tuning points. my mech was faster, stronger and less overheating.
So, it would benefit the game, i think.

[InfiniteWin]

Very nice and will be a good idea if the 8 level limit between players is kept.

[HugeGuts]

A good idea. However, there is still the issue of each class eventually having only one ideal build. To prevent this, each class will need more class unique tuning options and less, preferably none, generic tuning options.

[dEd101]

nepacaka, on October 28 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

me like!


when I bought the vanguard after the patch, I had 30 points (i was max pilot lvl), and tuned as the you picture (the other slots were closed), mech was a very "strong" compared to the vanguard player with 0 tuning points. my mech was faster, stronger and less overheating.
So, it would benefit the game, i think.

That is exactly where I got the idea from.

HugeGuts, on October 28 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

A good idea. However, there is still the issue of each class eventually having only one ideal build. To prevent this, each class will need more class unique tuning options and less, preferably none, generic tuning options.

True but within the current system I think what I proposed is pretty fair. Future changes like you suggested would be ideal though.

Edited by dEd101, October 28 2013 - 11:10 PM.

[Dew]

This was suggested before Ascension went live and summarily ignored.

[dEd101]

Dew, on October 29 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

This was suggested before Ascension went live and summarily ignored.

I didn't know that. I didn't crack the nod for HAB.

[dEd101]

With this system there is less of a reason to segregate players according to level and we can go back to mmr based ranking and balancing.

I'll update the original post with this info later. I can't edit such a huge post on my tablet.

Edited by dEd101, October 29 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[T_Bot]

I had a other idea how to solve the new mech / tuning points / lvl problem:

How about you get tuning points the more you play the mech. It makes sense, the longer you play the better you know your mech and can modify it to your needs.

So a theoretically a lvl 1 who played a lot with his mech would have the same mech as a lvl 30. That would even the field and let skill decide the outcome of a 1 vs 1 and not the overall playtime.

Instead of tuningpoints per pilot lvl you could gift us with Cash / Items / Internals that could be used in every mech. Like we have now when you reach the EXP boarder of a mech.

[Teljaxx]

I like this idea. It is similar to, but more purely horizontal than my suggestion.

The main problem I could see with this is what HugeGuts said about each mech having one ideal build. But that would most likely end up happening to some degree with any tuning setup, horizontal or not.

[zaepp]

The "God of Online Multiplayer Combat" alone knows why ADH wants this vertical progression. I doubt that they will ever move away from it. It's about a "sense of accomplishment" but I think it's more about "providing cheap excuses for lazy/untalented/drunken players because they can always blame their low level for sucking". ADH claims that "the players" wanted it, but nobody on this forums knows a player who wanted it.

So far this system has brought more harm to this game than good.

[Muffintrumpet]

an excellent idea that almost entirely assuages the current idiotic situation whereby lower level players are routinely pitted against level 30s with all the trimmings
(it takes such a loooooong time to reach 30, I’m 26 hours in with 300K un-boosted XP)
(I honestly don’t think I have the stomach to stick around waiting so long for a fair fight)
doubt it will happen though, ADH seem to be fond to the cr_p we have now
(their solution to the previous vertical progression wasn’t to level it, but was to add a second hill to climb)

the players asked for this_
which players asked for this_
come on, own up

Edited by Muffintrumpet, October 30 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[Dinre]

I agree with the idea of lessening the gap between new and more experienced players' mechs.  I know everyone will theoretically reach the same pilot level eventually, but it is completely unsatisfying to lose to an opponent who won purely because they spent more time in the game.  I love the idea of benefits unlocking as you play more, but I wish the benefits made you "different" rather than "better."

Edit: I suppose I should add that it is also unsatisfying to realize you're mopping the floor with someone who simply hasn't leveled up enough to be on an even playing field with you.

Edited by Dinre, October 30 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[dEd101]

Teljaxx, on October 29 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

I like this idea. It is similar to, but more purely horizontal than my suggestion.

The main problem I could see with this is what HugeGuts said about each mech having one ideal build. But that would most likely end up happening to some degree with any tuning setup, horizontal or not.

I read that thread. It gave me some of the ideas that sparked this new thread. I went through several systems but they all required tons of work from devs and complete reworks of the existing system. My solution works almost exactly the same as the current system but just gives players a more level playing field.

[Muffintrumpet]

ADH don't want a level playing field
apparently it's "fun" and "rewarding" to fight against people who have more gear than you
who knew

[zaepp]

AFAIK the guys from HAB suggested this to ADH:



As soon as a player gains a level he/she unlocks a tuning-point that can be relocated from primary to secondary systems. Since no viable build requires to relocate all tuning-points from primary to secondary, a pilot would be fully competitive (at least gear-wise) compared to a lvl 30 pilot, in the early 20ties.

Further more a full primary build possibly suits a beginner more due to its higher armor.

Edited by zaepp, October 30 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

This is our cry ADH, no one is saying that the tuning system is bad, we enjoy it, we just want it to be horizontal to lower eliminate the power gap between low level and high level players.

[Teljaxx]

dEd101, on October 30 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I read that thread. It gave me some of the ideas that sparked this new thread. I went through several systems but they all required tons of work from devs and complete reworks of the existing system. My solution works almost exactly the same as the current system but just gives players a more level playing field.

Either my suggestion or your suggestion would be so much better that the current system.

Yours is nice, because it would require much less work from the Devs to implement and balance, and is therefore more likely to actually be used. My system, while more complex and harder to implement, would allow even more variety in how you set up your mech.

I also like Zaepp's suggestion as an alternative to yours. Having all the tuning points start in the base stats, and then being able to move them to secondary stats as you level up would also work well.