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Leon's Guide to Dealing With Scouts


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#1 Leonhardt

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Posted December 07 2013 - 08:31 AM

Welcome to Leon's Guide to Dealing With Scouts

and

Other A-Classes




Before we begin you must read the below. This story is not just the story of a University professor and a Zen master it is my relationship to you the reader. As I write this I am the Zen master and you are the university professor. Why_ I will explain that and more below, but be warned you cannot learn what I have to teach unless you first empty your cup.



A university professor went to visit a famous Zen master. While the master quietly served tea, the professor talked about Zen. The master poured the visitor's cup to the brim, and then kept pouring. The professor watched the overflowing cup until he could no longer restrain himself. "It's full! No more will go in!" the professor blurted. "This is you," the master replied, "How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup."


"What is the point of this story Leon and why does it matter to me_ I am just here to learn how to deal with scouts and other A-classes not Zen." Why yes you are and it is precisely for that reason that you must first empty your cup because what you know and what you are doing is not working be it Zen or Hawken.












Flying A-Class Mechs

When we think of flying A-class mechs we often think of the Berserker buzzing around in the air shooting its pew pew gun and rocket, but truth be told all flying A-class mechs work the same except for the scout and infiltrator which differ slightly. Scout and Infiltrator will attempt to use the air dodge to go back into cover or go over your head to stay safe. Really this is just an opening and one you can take advantage of given the proper distance or situation, but more on that later lets first cover the basics. This session will focus on CQC fighting against flying A-class mechs and should not be applied at range. At range you need good aim and that is not something I can teach by writing a guide.

When dealing with a flying sustained fire A-class (Zerker, Battle Tech) one must recognize how the fight will play out. Both will probably fly around trying to make you miss and attempt to go over your head to gain the advantage. If they are close enough to go over your head then you are close enough to take control of the situation. Assert your dominance by hitting them with at least your burst primary (if sustained then judgment is needed for a favorable trade) and then forward boost underneath them so that you come out facing their back. They will likely not have the 180 air spin so you should be able to hit them unopposed for a bit. Rinse and repeat this unless they attempt to land. If the enemy begins to land right after an air dodge they have just signed their death warrant. Wait for the moment when they are just about to touch down on the ground and open up with your secondary and primary following (those using sustained fire should be tracing with their primary the entire time unless heat builds up too much then lay off). Why wait to use the secondary_ This is a moment where the mech cannot move and is a guaranteed hit provided you aim properly. Remember "I can only open the door, you must walk through it."

Now on to air dodging scouts and infiltrators. First and foremost we must understand that of the two the scout is the easiest to kill because they have the lowest air dynamics stat of the two, a lot less fuel and neither mech can increase the air dynamics stat so they will be slower moving targets in the air. The higher they fly the more fuel they use so keep that in mind against scouts. It is likely that a smart scout or infiltrator using air dodge will only jump high enough to go over your head to keep a good fuel economy, but they are just as susceptible to the above tactics we applied to the air Zerker and Battle Tech provided they aren't using cover. If they are using cover then there are a few things you MUST have before you can win this engagement 100% of the time. You need to have the health advantage, a get out of jail free card (item such as EMP, shield or Det) and awareness (always be aware of your surroundings when being the aggressor). Now lets assert our dominance and show these little guys why they can't role up and just buzz around like they own the place. Trade with them as they fly in the air or choose to disengage by taking cover nearby if you feel you cannot get a good trade (even or positive in your favor). By engaging you this guy has entered into a damage race with an inherit health disadvantage provided you are a full health B or C-class. Right after he fires off his secondary regardless of hit or miss (try and make him miss) you will assert your dominance by following him around the corner and clubbing him right in the mouth. Open up on him with everything you have the second he touches down after a dodge or right after a dodge on the ground. Now comes for the real fun part. You have won this engagement and it is up to the A-class to try and leave and you to kill him as he shows his back or stay and die like a fool in which case you just take your time (not too much time) aim and fire, don't worry you have way more health than him). Regardless rejoice for you have dominated your opponent and they will think twice before messing with you again (unless you missed too much then they will come back and you will get more practice).

If someone is using an Air reaper they are dumb and you should have no problem killing them since in the air the reaper has a higher probability of shots going astray. If however, you find yourself having trouble just apply the above tactics they will work just fine.

A good pilot does not become tense, but ready. Not thinking, yet not dreaming. Ready for whatever may come. When the opponent expands, I contract; and when he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity, "I" do not hit, "it" hits all by itself." ~Adapted from Bruce Lee



Scouts and Grounded A-classes


We will begin this session with the easiest targets to dominate in a fight, Scouts. Yes you did read that correctly the Scout is the easiest A-class to dominate on the ground. "But Leon they are so fast_" Why yes they are and let them waste their fuel because with proper positioning, decent aim, concentration and confidence anyone can assert their A, B or C class dominance over these little guys. Forget what you think you know about scouts because to engage them there are only a few things you need to know. First they have a maximum of 570 health (470 without tunning points) making them the lowest health target in the game. Thats right folks every hit you make on one of these little guys puts you closer to killing it than all other classes. It is also likely that you think the scout does more damage than other mechs, but quickly dispel this thought. Scouts do similar damage to most other mechs in the game, but they excel at CQC due to their low dodge cool down (CD), speed and ability to press "F" and jet out of a bad situation or outplay a pilot who makes too many mistakes. So the big question is how do I engage a scout_ The simple answer is that you cannot be the aggressor depending on their fuel situation (low fuel you can engage). The longer and more complex answer is that a good scout will likely engage you based on your positioning relative to your team. This can be both an advantage for you or a disadvantage depending on a lot of factors, but for the purposes of this guide I will stick strictly to a 1v1 situation against a scout as a B or C class mech where both have full health.

So lets begin the dance. A good scout will try to use their maneuverability to stay out of your FOV (field of view) or at the very least outside of your firing angle. They will do this by using cover, dodging around you and trying to expose your back side and really just any kind of movement that makes it harder to hit them. Remember you have the health advantage so assert your dominance. Trade with them even if its even and they will lose the engagement, but make sure its a trade and not one sided (NO FREE DAMAGE ALLOWED). If they dodge around a corner and try to bait you don't take it unless you are so close you can smell the fuel from their freshly used thrusters. If you are that close move in and pepper them with primary waiting for the dodge. Right after they dodge follow up with a secondary smacking them right in the mouth! Even if its only splash damage you will win this engagement. Now the most important thing to keep in mind when fighting a scout is to save your dodge to keep good positioning and sight on the scout. Try as they might if you dodge properly they cannot get around behind you or deny you a shot. You can do this by turning your mouse before you dodge to cut at sharper angles in order to keep them in your sight line. I can't describe how to do this since every engagement is unique, but apply the principle well and you will succeed. Once you have won the engagement the scout will decide whether they should stay or go (likely go) if they stay tear them a new corn hole and laugh maniacally at your new found invincibility. If they do the smart thing and try to leave blow them to bits at range or back off if they have gone too far or are too close to their team, but remember to rejoice because for every second that scout spends fighting you and getting nothing there are kills on the map he/she is missing out on and their team is fighting a man down.

So now that we have covered fighting scouts we will move on to sustained fire A-class mechs such as the Zerker, battle Tech and Reaper (no slug). These mechs will try to engage you while keeping line of sight. Unlike the scout where you want to maintain line of sight while fighting them you want to break line of sight against these sustained weapon opponents and do so quickly if a Zerker pops his ability. Bait them around corners and hit them with splash damage. Never allow them to even see you and you will win this fight with ease. If you are in a C-class hit them with one good secondary shot for free damage around a corner and you can move in and win the engagement with ease. If you are in a B-class try to get two free hits be it splash or direct and you can do the same, but one will also work in a pinch. Make sure to apply all the principles you have learned above as well and you should do just fine.

You may be thinking, but Leon what about Infiltrators_ If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball or in this case if you can kill a Scout you can kill an Infiltrator. There are 3 things you have to keep in mind against Infiltrators they have a larger splash radius with the GL than the Scout's TOW giving them the edge in corner play,they have more health than a Scout and they move slower than a scout. Play it the same as against a scout if you are in a C-class, but if you are in a B-class try to get some free damage first. Remember to do as you did against the scout and you will win with ease. Also don't forget to laugh manically since most Infiltrators stay far too long and are not fast enough to get away plus their ability makes them faster for a steep price of fuel economy. If they get the drop on you then recognize that you were not aware enough of your surroundings and you are now in an engagement at a disadvantage because of it. Stay alert and don't let them rattle you.


If you have read through everything above and understood what you have read then you are now at the beginning of your journey. You must apply the tactics and principles I have detailed. Remember "We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves."



As a final footnote I would like to point out to everyone that these tactics will help you succeed, but against a player who hits every single shot you will have to maintain a similar level of accuracy to come out on top. Its as simple as that, but the number of players that can do that right now are only top tier pilots so don't worry too much.

EDIT: Updated for 12/13/2014 patch

Edited by Leonhardt, December 14 2013 - 09:43 AM.

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#2 DFTR

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Posted December 07 2013 - 08:43 AM

Zen stories, Dodgeball quotes, and Bruce Lee wisdom rolled into a wall of text.  Nicely done!
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#3 Nept

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:01 AM

My guide was much easier to understand.  Just sayin'.

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#4 Weezl3

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:02 AM

View PostNept, on December 07 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

My guide was much easier to understand.  Just sayin'.

Less time consuming too

#5 Leonhardt

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:03 AM

View PostNept, on December 07 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

My guide was much easier to understand.  Just sayin'.

I dictated your guide so really its my guide that you stole. :P

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#6 Fstroke

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:15 AM

Well at least I can say I enjoyed myself. good read

#7 Rasti

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:25 AM

Someone else who thinks that Scouts are the easiest mech to tear apart_

Good riddance, I must be dreaming!

Anyways, decent guide.
Doesn't apply to many scenarios tho (one can only tell so much in small pieces of text), so people MIGHT possibly find it redundant at some points.

It was a fairly nice read tho! :-p

Jonnywithanh said:

yes you can be yoda


#8 caduceus26

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostLeonhardt, on December 07 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Welcome to Leon's Guide to Dealing With Scouts[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]and[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Other A-Classes[/font]



Good read.  Enjoyed the journey. Thanks! Now to practice application of the principles :)
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#9 Leonhardt

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:43 AM

View PostRasti, on December 07 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Someone else who thinks that Scouts are the easiest mech to tear apart_

Good riddance, I must be dreaming!

Anyways, decent guide.
Doesn't apply to many scenarios tho (one can only tell so much in small pieces of text), so people MIGHT possibly find it redundant at some points.

It was a fairly nice read tho! :-p

Only so much one can do if they miss shots, but the principles remain the same only the situation differs. Redundancy was intentional to beat into peoples heads certain principles. You have to show an ad 9 times before ppl remember it and say what you want them to remember at least 3 times in each ad.

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#10 Aregon

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:47 AM

If it wasn`t for the fact that I got no problem with A class I would most likely find this useful, but since I am so darn smart already it wasn`t for much use.

JK. Good guide for those who got problems!
I`ll fix it later.

#11 ThirdEyE

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:48 AM

May want to include something about chasing mechs with high splash or residual damage, such as HEAT Scouts and HEAT/EOC Infiltrators.  Many people make the mistake of chasing into damage without being able to return damage, particularly on maps like Wreckage with lots of cover and corners for kiting around.

Otherwise good advice!  Maybe a video guide series would be helpful to many people, since many of the ones already out there are a bit outdated at this point.  Any volunteers_
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#12 Leonhardt

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:50 AM

View PostThirdEyE, on December 07 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

May want to include something about chasing mechs with high splash or residual damage, such as HEAT Scouts and HEAT/EOC Infiltrators.  Many people make the mistake of chasing into damage without being able to return damage, particularly on maps like Wreckage with lots of cover and corners for kiting around.

If you can't smell the thrusters don't go around the corner.

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#13 JudgeGrey

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Posted December 07 2013 - 09:52 AM

Well FuzzyBunny you overfilled my cup again B). Good info as I have the most trouble against the scouts and playing my scout has always been about those perfect moments and timing, Your information is for the newer players and those like me trying to establish what I am doing wrong. But your giving away the secrets :ph34r:

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It's the Jake that rides beside 'em whose nerves are edged with steel.
It's the jakes that ride behind them when the truck rolls to a call.
The sirens blare and we say a prayer 'til they're home safe one and all.

#14 Saturnine

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Posted December 07 2013 - 10:13 AM

无为而无不为

I liked the advice you gave here, not because it's specifically good advice (though it is), it's because it encourages people to forget what they thought they knew and to drop all preconceived notions. Very useful thing to do for a lot of situations in life. +1

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#15 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted December 07 2013 - 10:25 AM

View PostThirdEyE, on December 07 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

May want to include something about chasing mechs with high splash or residual damage, such as HEAT Scouts and HEAT/EOC Infiltrators.  Many people make the mistake of chasing into damage without being able to return damage, particularly on maps like Wreckage with lots of cover and corners for kiting around.
AJK's guide to chasing speedy, high-splash targets:
Don't.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#16 EliteShooter

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Posted December 07 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

View PostThirdEyE, on December 07 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

May want to include something about chasing mechs with high splash or residual damage, such as HEAT Scouts and HEAT/EOC Infiltrators.  Many people make the mistake of chasing into damage without being able to return damage, particularly on maps like Wreckage with lots of cover and corners for kiting around.
AJK's guide to chasing speedy, high-splash targets:
Don't.

True story

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#17 Aregon

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Posted December 07 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

View PostThirdEyE, on December 07 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

May want to include something about chasing mechs with high splash or residual damage, such as HEAT Scouts and HEAT/EOC Infiltrators.  Many people make the mistake of chasing into damage without being able to return damage, particularly on maps like Wreckage with lots of cover and corners for kiting around.
AJK's guide to chasing speedy, high-splash targets:
Don't.
UNLESS you got the fastest Raider on the UK-servers, then you ram them down and MIRV+T32 the sh!t out of them and leaves with the 3 remaining seconds on the Blitz.
I`ll fix it later.

#18 DeVact

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Posted December 07 2013 - 11:12 AM

Kudos for a great guide! Wasn't much help for me because I already knew most of it but it is a reference that can be used against butthurt newcomers that have problems facing scouts.

Sooo, thanks ;)

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... less than witnessing Elvis crash a UFO into the Loch Ness Monster, seeing Bigfoot crawl out of the smoking wreckage, opening a wormhole in space, and then getting picked up by ET, Lando Calrissian, and an Arilou Lalee'Lay in the Space Battleship Yamato.

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#19 comic_sans

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Posted December 07 2013 - 11:13 AM

Good read and I'm always a fan of parables.  One little tip I'd offer is not to get all jumpy when you see a scout and to keep playing to your mech's strengths; seen a lotta folks start just trying to fly to the moon when I close distances.

#20 JeffMagnum

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Posted December 07 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostLeonhardt, on December 07 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Try as they might if you dodge properly they cannot get around behind you or deny you a shot. You can do this by turning your mouse before you dodge to cut at sharper angles in order to keep them in your sight line.

I don't think this was emphasized nearly enough. Dodging and strafing to adjust your aim more quickly than you could otherwise is an extremely important skill to learn regardless of what class you're in/fighting against, and I'd argue that it's almost impossible to win against a good player (especially if they're piloting an A-class at facehugging range) if you don't know how to do it. Dodging is a tool with much more utility than just avoiding damage--if you can learn how to use it to simultaneously avoid shots and adjust your aim, you'll be better off than the vast majority of players. Making macro changes in my aim with a dodge and then making additonal and generally smaller adjustments with my mouse while I'm in the dodge is something I use every single game, and if you learn nothing else from this post/Leon's post aside from realizing that dodging is an extension of aiming, you'll still find your gameplay will probably improve significantly once you get the hang of it.

Edited by JeffMagnum, December 07 2013 - 11:16 AM.





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