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Upcoming Balance Changes

News Update

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#1 [HWK]Vanashinkaku

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:43 PM

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Hey everyone, [HWK]Vanashinkaku here!

With Ascension, we created some really awesome systems. We've watched a lot of people play and we've collected a ton of data on how people have been building their mechs. We've taken this data and have been iterating on those designs based on how we've seen them effect gameplay.

We've talked before about the removal of vertical progression from Mech Progression and the re-balance to Pilot Progression. These things were critical in order for us to create the most balanced game we can. By removing Tuning Points, we are now able to deliver an extremely strong mech not just to a high level player, but to a new player as well. One of the biggest weaknesses of the old system was that new players were punished for having a weaker mech than someone who was max level and max mech rank. This new system puts a much larger emphasis on the skill of the player, rather than time played and optimal upgrades.

One question we've seen asked multiple times on the forums is: "Why not just give us all 30 points at the beginning_" We explored that option and here's why we ended up deciding against it.


    [*]In order to make the points meaningful, we have to make the effects pretty large. This makes balancing mechs very difficult when trying to take all tuning variations into account. This also makes it difficult for players to identify what a mech is capable of when spotted on the battlefield.
    [*]People often come up with what can be perceived as “Optimal Builds” for each class. Mostly everyone who keeps track will follow that same build and people who build differently may perform worse because of it. By removing tuning points, we can define the role of each mech and players will be able to have a much more balanced experience.
    [*]We want people to enjoy the game and be able to jump straight in and have fun. For that reason, people often forget to use their points. This becomes more apparent when players have many mechs in their garage. When this happens, they are basically penalized for not using them or for forgetting.
    [/list]

    Another change we have been wanting to make is in regards to the current Time-To-Kill (TTK). TTK has been a hot topic of conversation for a long time and something we've been adjusting internally. We eventually came to the conclusion that engagements lasted far too long and for the most part felt extremely unrewarding. We believe the main reason for this was our large health pools.

    When battling another player 1-on-1, we agree that maneuvering and dancing around is fun. However, the longer this lasts the more opportunity there is for another player to come and affect the outcome of the fight. This doesn't feel rewarding for either players involved in the 1-on-1 because it prevents them from having any closure for their duel.

    Another disadvantage of high health is that it minimizes the importance of strategic placement, flanking and smart decision making. It's a disappointing experience when you attempt to outsmart your competition only to have the enemy simply escape due to his high health.

    Before I go into the numbers behind the new TTK balance, let's take a look at "Effective Health."

    The Effective Health of a mech is its potential health given through other means outside of armor itself. There are many things that contribute to your Effective Health, including movement speed, dodging, abilities etc. We've all faced a powerful Scout Pilot who is able to clean up an entire team and then run away without breaking a sweat. This is because their high mobility more than makes up for their lack of armor, giving them an Effective Health that is extremely high.

    This issue also leads to balance problems. Light mechs are supposed to be glass cannons, but with their high Effective Health there really isn't anything "glass" about them. Not only are they the fastest mechs in the game, they can also be granted far too much armor using Tuning Points.

    This is why we see a lot of Light mechs being played in the current version of HAWKEN, more so than most other classes in the game. We really want to see more high-level play involving Medium and Heavy class mechs while still keeping Light mechs as a viable option in competitive combat. In order to accomplish this, we have significantly lowered the Time-To-Kill in HAWKEN.

    So what does lowering the Time-To-Kill mean_  Well, here are a few bullet points!


      [*]Mech Armor Heavily Reduced
      [*]Sustain Damage Increased
      [*]Burst Damage Re-Balanced
      [*]Heat Generation Lowered Overall
      [/list]

      Essentially, the faster a mech is and/or the more potential burst damage output it has, the less armor the mech will have! With these new balance changes, one mistake can easily destroy that dominating Scout pilot without them getting more than a few shots off. Positioning, timing and map awareness will be far more valuable in this new environment and we look forward to seeing how combat will develop and evolve.

      So, without further ado, here's our collection of statistics for the upcoming patch. Enjoy!

       

      Mech Statistics

      Weapon Statistics

      Item Statistics


      Click here to view the article

#2 Xacius

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:44 PM

Greetings fellow pilots...

Not sure what the bounds of my NDA are (it was never really written on paper), but I'd like to say a couple things about the upcoming balance changes.  Keep in mind, these are coming from the perspective of a high-tier player.  

I was at one of the testing sessions that ADH hosted in the beginning of January.  

Feedback on the new TTK:
Spoiler

Movement speed reduction:
Spoiler

for Van: What do the "Air Speed" numbers indicate_  Is that a m/s value or something different_  Can you translate it to grounded m/s for comparison_

Edited by Xacius, February 03 2014 - 11:29 PM.

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#3 FenixStryk

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:44 PM

It begins.
Get your popcorn .gifs ready.

It was fun while it lasted.


#4 DM30

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:51 PM

NUMBERS! :D

I feel like this is going to throw me for a serious loop once the update hits, but here's hoping that when the dust settles it'll be a much more solid game.

#5 TheVulong

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:53 PM

B3-AR, SAARE launcher and HEAT MINE, you say..

Edited by TheVulong, February 03 2014 - 05:54 PM.

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#6 Preternatural

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:53 PM

View Post[HWK]Vanashinkaku, on February 03 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

In order to accomplish this, we have significantly lowered the Time-To-Kill in HAWKEN.


So what does lowering the Time-To-Kill mean_  Well, here are a few bullet points!
  • Mech Armor Heavily Reduced
  • Sustain Damage Increased
  • Burst Damage Re-Balanced
  • Heat Generation Lowered Overall
Oh Dear God, did Hawken just turn itself into yet another twitch FPS_ Dammit, one of the things I like best about Hawken is its TTK...

I really, really hope [HWK] realizes that this is a bad move.

Edited by Preternatural, February 03 2014 - 06:06 PM.

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#7 WarlordZ

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:56 PM

The next mech: incinerator!

Glad to see the berserker and reaper being the two toughest A's.

The rocketeer only flies as well as the sharpshooter... that's interesting.

#8 EternalAnnihilator

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:57 PM

OOOOOooooh:D new mech:D

#9 GOB

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Posted February 03 2014 - 05:58 PM

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#10 Preternatural

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:06 PM

Did anyone else notice that the B3-AR names are PPA, BBY, and M4MA, which could  mean Papa, Baby, and Mama.
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Edited by Preternatural, February 04 2014 - 09:58 AM.

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#11 flimsy

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:09 PM

It doesn't look like there are any adjustments to the range on the flak type weapons. Also alpha strike A class kills are now possible. Not really crazy about either of those things, or the logic relating to the effect of TTK. I just straight up think the latter is wrong. But I guess this is a pretty clear message about which players ADH hopes to retain and which it can afford to lose.

#12 WarlordZ

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:11 PM

View PostPreternatural, on February 03 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Post[HWK]Vanashinkaku, on February 03 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

In order to accomplish this, we have significantly lowered the Time-To-Kill in HAWKEN.


So what does lowering the Time-To-Kill mean_  Well, here are a few bullet points!
  • Mech Armor Heavily Reduced
  • Sustain Damage Increased
  • Burst Damage Re-Balanced
  • Heat Generation Lowered Overall
Oh Dear God, did Hawken just turn itself into yet another twitch FPS_ Dammit, one of the things I like best about Hawken is its TTK...

I really, really hope [HWK] realizes that this is a bad move.
Read the chart:
http://i.imgur.com/M07djoF.png
Even with armor "heavily reduced", heavies still have between 635 and 750 armor, and weapons loader tuning won't be available for that extra +10% damage.  Also, dodging won't consume fuel anymore, meaning you can probably avoid a lot of it.

Edited by WarlordZ, February 03 2014 - 06:12 PM.


#13 Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:12 PM

PWHOA!!!  What the heck is the Heat Mine_  I think I've fallen in love with another mech!  Also, there seems to be a new secondary weapon:  The SAARE Launcher!  It has a NEGATIVE heat gen of 15/30!  Anyone else find it interesting that this new 'Incinerator' Mech is very close to the speed at which Vanguard can move_

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, February 03 2014 - 06:15 PM.


#14 h0B0

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:14 PM

Its bout time we catually get numbers.

Kind of dumb to put them in a .png file if you ask me. Having them in a spreadsheet would allow the community easier access to getting the info they require.

also thanks for the info on the new incinerator class, item and weapons.

I'll take my time to analise all this in details but at quick glance i'm looking forward to the return of the heatscout meta.

Edited by h0B0, February 03 2014 - 06:15 PM.

Click me! I dare you.

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View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on March 15 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Oh don't always listen to h0B0. Lol.


#15 shosca

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:14 PM

I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna start using b and c classes after the patch.

https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

Edited by shosca, February 03 2014 - 06:18 PM.


#16 CookieTheory

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:15 PM

You know what would make this patch even more awesome_
Releasing the Incinerator as well...just saying.

#17 Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:19 PM

Waaaaiiiitt a minute... I still find it odd that the C classes still don't have much fuel compared to the rest of the classes.

#18 WarlordZ

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:19 PM

View Postshosca, on February 03 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna start using b and c classes after the patch.
We'll probably see fewer A's used as front line battle mechs.  The lower health opens up new flanking opportunities though, as you should be able to gun someone down pretty quickly if they aren't dodging.  People will either adapt their playstyles or switch to something heavier.

#19 deidarall

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:20 PM

The devs are looking to make light mechs actually glass cannoning instead of dodging machines that really have more health than anyone due t movement_

TIME TO RAVE.

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Also are abilities getting changes as well devs_ I would imagine such a sift in health pools would call for turret mode changes bruiser changes... well a ton of changes actually. Considering how those are based on percentages... Actually I am sure we will get more answers on this with the full patch notes.

Edited by deidarall, February 03 2014 - 06:29 PM.

May the unskilled become the most skilled. May the skilled remain the most skilled. Let the newest players have the most fun, and the most skilled have none. Let the skilled have fun, while the new have none. The unskilled maybe the most skilled if you let them be. The skilled may be the most killed if the world allows that. RAISINS!

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#20 Greenvalv

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Posted February 03 2014 - 06:21 PM

*gets to C-class stats*
Brawler... ok, good, beefy
Grenadier... good good
Incinerator... lightly beefy, ok
Rock... wait a minute... INCINERATOR

Edited by Greenvalv, February 03 2014 - 06:36 PM.

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